Have you seen fencing?

[TheElf]

Most d20 based games penalizes if you move while you are fighting and in a threatened area, but if you see fencing, boxing, or many other close combat you can see, or try to learn some, you will see, that you have to move a lot, or if you fail to move you get hit more often. Why the D&D rules make combat very different from what you see in reality, what you see in movies, and what you see described in fantasy books everywhere? Do anyone has good optional rules for it? I think the best optional rule is: Every intelligent opponent can name 3 adjactent squares before attack, if their opponents remain in those squares after their actions or cross these squares they provoke attack of oppurtunity. Better than the current rule. Also for unintelligent creatures, or animals it would be better to provide different attack of oppurtunity rules.

[Tzeentch]

Concerning the movement, have you ever seen armored (full chain suit or +) fight, they can't move so much because moving means wasting energy that could be used for parying and attacking. Feints and fencing came much later when armor was dissapearing... and i think that is the view of D20 devellopers. They saw it from the armored fighters view and they tought (i think) that it would make the game too hard to learn if they went in "complex" rules like planning your opponent moves and so...

On another note, i think your idea on planning your opponents movements is quite good... could be used with sense motive and bluff... but then again you'd have to give the fighters some more skill points.

Tzeentch

[TheElf]

They would have their own problems in fights, and while you say: You can hardly move in armor, you have a wrong image about these armor in mind. A set of armor for a noble kinght was heavy, but yet they knights had their warhorses to move them, and regardles of this, most of them were strong enough to move in their armor. Yes, the armor was a bit customized for them. The other armor were less heavy, and the soldiers wwere trained to wear them, and move in them effectively. They were much stronger. Try to do wieghtlifting as you see in TV, you won't do it, since you aren't a pro, you have no full trainging for your muscles. "Professional" warriors had enough training to have the same difference.

[Tzeentch]

True, very true, but even if you're trained as they were, you don't jump around wearing 20-60 pounds of metal on your back :P I know and understand they were trained for that, but then again, they were trained to fight effectively, thus moving as little as they needed, it needs a lot less effort to do a step and parry a blow than it needs to dodge the same blow... imo that is. I give that moving is essential but 5' square is enough space to fight, then again someone unarmored would need about 20' square and even more to fight effectively.

[TheElf]

The problem: Movement is penalized, even for unarmored characters and not with fatigue for armored ones, but with attacks of oppurtunity. And what about mounted combat, does you horse provokes attacks of oppurtunity because it needs some space and moves often? And what about flying creatures?

[Tzeentch]

Spring Attack when you're on foot (PH3.5 100)
Ride-by Attack for when you're mounted (PH3.5 99)
Fly-by Attack for flying creatures (MM3.5 303)

You can give everyone those feats and then you're set, moving doesn't incurs attacks of opportunity in a logical manner... as logical as D&D can be

[TheElf]

For mounted combat: Your horse will move in that region without any feat on its own, just to name a small problem.

[Tzeentch]

I know, but then again D20 would have to redo the whole riding system if it was going to be closer to reality... having a ride check to let you evade an attack is quite bad in my opinion.

[TheElf]

Whats worse, that isn't the only bad thing

[[-Rogy-]]

well you need to understand that d20 system is trying to deal with a "real" moving world in a turn based system.
i personly train in medivel sowrd fight (thats right fight not play ) and i can tell you that yes you do move alot in combat and yes even in full battle gear you can move soprisingly well the d20 system solvd this problam by designating a very large space a humen oqupies 5 square feet are about 1.5 squere meters and from personal expirience its a lot of space to move around with a sword.
the chartes dont "stand" in there squre the constently move in it even the small movment of 5ft adjastment is a big step in real combat it is a real menuver takent you about 2 meters around your oponent.
the spring atack/ride/flyby are actualy complex tactical combat menuvers rellaying on hit & run and ARE DENGURES to perfom in real fight.
all in all i think the d20 selution to the problam is not that bad when you think of it.