Streamlining and you

[TheElf]

A car is better when it is aerodynamic, when it is light, when it doesn't use too much fuel. It is good if it is easy to maintain it, and you don't need expensive parts. It is good when it has big enough space for your package.

Would you buy a car without engine, gearbox, wheels, steering or seats bacause it has all the above values? Streamlining when you forget the purpose and the real values of a product isn't good.

If you say, bicycles are fuel efficient, light, some of them are aerodynamic, etc. and try to copy those values in cars by making bad compromises and forgetting about most advantages of cars, would you seek that path?

This is a big problem with the whole concept of streamlining.

[Elrion]

Streamlining has some advantages, yet you portray it like it would be an invention of the devil and bane of all RPG games. Mind if I ask: Why?

[TheElf]

There is a difference between using the process of streamlining as a tool, but still remembering your original goals, concept, the strenghts and values of your product...

And when you decide to base everything on the concept of streamlining and forget about other values.

Streamlining and various processes of streamlining should be tools used when needed, not the main concept when designing a game

[Elrion]

I can understand that, but it is hard to make your game somewhat lifelike and still keep your players happy. BOEF for 3rd edition opened new topics in the game, and it also made the whole game more lifelike, yet most people don't like that book.

If see seek balance, then simplicity, complexity, lifelike stories, and strong focus on stuff we want to see are both essential. And in case of D&D the strong focus on tactical fantasy combat encounters combined with simplicity can be part of the concept, which makes streamlining a good idea

Complexity is served by accessories and you can collect things, and as a collector, and regular visitor of the stores you can get a more important role in the community.

[TheElf]

BOEF wasn't popular for good reasons.

Streamlining always ended creating total chaos.

[tauknight]

A dirty product that has unneeded or silly rules needs improving. Streamlining allows a product to emphasise its good points, be simpler, and when streamlined well, allows as much depth. I think your problem with streamlining is more with new version = less books = less roleplaying depth. If so, import stuff from 2e to your 4e games. 4E > 3.5E in nearly everyway.

[tauknight]

What is your opinions on streamlining? Especially D&D.

[TheElf]

As you see I have started a topic: Streamlining and you. Will merge the two topics, and answer the question after that.

[tauknight]

How will streamlining create total chaos?

[TheElf]

Wrong: At first, the streamling became a major goal with 3rd edition and 3.5E for many reasons. I think we can say that those editions of D&D have enough materials already. The problem is. You have a set of balls, perfectly streamlined, try to build a house from them. It won't work. But from bricks, that aren't streamlined you could build something, right?

Streamlining has its place, but having streamlined parts inside your engine has no purpose. Removing important elements (like engine) from a car to help streamlining has no good purpose either.

Wizards try to use streamlining like a magic want, but with it they forget about the puprose of it, and fail to see the whole picture when they design the game. And this is a problem.